Stephen Cass: Howdy and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we take a look at concrete options to some massive issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply wish to let you know that you could get the most recent protection from a few of Spectrum’s most necessary beats, together with AI, local weather change, and robotics, by signing up for one in all our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is changing into an more and more necessary matter world wide, and right this moment we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, concerning the European Union’s Sustronics program geared toward this very matter. I’d prefer to welcome you to the present. Thanks a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thanks. Good to be right here. Thanks for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. In order I mentioned, sustainable electronics is changing into an even bigger and larger matter, but it surely appears to be a kind of issues that folks speak about it greater than truly doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics undertaking going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thanks for the query. Certainly, the Sustronics undertaking is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 completely different European nations. And our principal matter is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one side however bearing in mind completely different alternatives which may come up from number of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that may very well be used. And VTT’s position is, to begin with, to be the technical supervisor of the undertaking to make sure that the completely different companions work collectively and the completely different actions are interacting with one another as a way to have a joint effort. However on prime of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the undertaking.
Cass: Is it a case that you just search for trade companions who then are available in and work with you? They appear round. They assume you’re match inside the program. Or are you actively seeking out individuals and going, “Oh, we expect we’ve some know-how which may assist you out right here”?
Hakola: Properly, principally, I believe they’re each methods. In fact, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the trade, massive enterprises and SMEs. So after all, they’ve particular wants, and we’ve been already agreeing through the proposal section that VTT might supply sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that would assist with lowering their environmental footprint.
Cass: I suppose the query is, why would anyone be a part of this system, particularly when you’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I believe it’s an ideal thought, however we regularly hear about bottom-line points and so forth. What’s the inducement, in case you are any individual who’s making electronics, to grow to be one in all these companions?
Hakola: Properly, to begin with, within the EU, we’ve this Inexperienced Deal. So the laws and the laws is growing right into a course the place the entire firms within the EU should bear in mind the sustainability features of the merchandise they’re growing and promoting. So as a way to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU facet, the businesses must develop new methods to take care of or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to form of applied sciences which were in improvement in these, after which they will attempt them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that method to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re based mostly in New York, in the USA, the place it’s fairly a special regulatory regime. However are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability laws? What occurs when you don’t do it? As a result of I can think about some individuals simply considering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a tremendous. It’s only a price of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Properly, after all, EU is growing the laws on a regular basis, so there may come new enforcements sooner or later. However the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that may give details about the environmental influence of the product. And that form of data could be accessible even for customers. So truly, if the customers are environmentally conscious, they might begin choosing the merchandise which might be environmentally pleasant. In order that’s, after all, fairly sturdy method to make firms work in the direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. As a result of if customers begin choosing the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So that you talked somewhat bit earlier about all the type of lifecycle and sustainability. Alongside that life cycle, what are a number of the greatest obstacles that at present exist in the direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Properly, there are a few issues which might be fairly dominant. So to begin with, the uncooked supplies which might be used for making digital merchandise, they’re largely fossil-based, like completely different metals which might be wanted for making conductive buildings. And likewise, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re often based mostly on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. After which we are literally speaking about supplies which might be essential or uncommon or fairly useful. So it’s fairly a problem to search out supplies that would substitute the present supplies as a result of we all know that these are well-performing. So can we truly discover some sustainable options for them?
And one other factor is, after all, that the processes which might be used for making circuit boards, for instance, they eat various vitality and uncooked supplies. And that, after all, just isn’t superb for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very vitality or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a approach that a whole lot of materials is wasted and processed a number of occasions. And naturally, the entire electronics trade is kind of complicated and fragmented trade. There are a whole lot of layers, and it’s actually tough to get all of them to work collectively and type of transparently switch knowledge and data between the completely different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and perhaps that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and speak somewhat concerning the work that you just’ve accomplished in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Sure. So VTT has targeted rather a lot on changing the fossil-based substrate supplies with supplies which might be bio-based or renewable supplies. And properly, in Finland, the forest trade has sometimes been fairly sturdy. So after all, we’ve studied how one can use the cellulose-based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. However there are additionally a whole lot of these biopolymer-based substrates that are– principally, they feel and look like plastics, however they’re from bio-based sources, so they’re form of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You mentioned compostable there. I’m somewhat nervous as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic baggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so whenever you say that, I’m somewhat involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very short-lived type of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very brief life cycles?
Hakola: Sure. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing know-how, so then after all we’re in a position to manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. However when you produce a whole lot of electronics that’s for single-use goal, then truly you’re creating a whole lot of new digital waste. So you must in some way sort out this subject with having single-use electronics, however then having the ability to in some way recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there’s, for instance, some diagnostic system the place you measure one thing, then most likely there could be a single-use half on that system that would then most likely be compostable. However then there would even be a reusable half. So after doing a little diagnostic measurements, you alter just one piece of the system, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it will also be that the recycling course of is established, and it will be simply recyclable. However in that form of circumstances, you may take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak somewhat bit extra about recycling there. Digital waste is notoriously very tough to waste. We now have to separate out our digital waste and we’ve to place it elsewhere. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. However then I typically take into consideration when all these items is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-year-old damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Properly, yeah, that’s after all a matter of— to begin with, you want to set up the recycling course of, and there must be completely different assortment bins the place individuals might dispose their electronics. However after all, I come from Finland. Truly, in my condominium the place I reside, there are one thing like seven completely different recycling bins the place I put the completely different sort of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that massive of a problem. However when you assume recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets truly should be designed in a approach that they’re higher for recycling. So we speak about round design, for instance. Already within the design section of the merchandise, you truly take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a approach that it’s, for instance, modular, so you possibly can disintegrate the completely different elements simply and get better the supplies. So truly, every thing begins within the design section.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that typically it’s simpler for me to restore one thing that’s 40 years previous. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the lifeless. However a product I purchase right this moment, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I usually should ship away for a particular equipment. Is a part of this design course of additionally these points?
Hakola: Sure, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design section. Design the gadgets in a approach that components could be changed in a while, and other people don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, after all, for the electronics firms, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. However maybe they will discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There may very well be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So that you talked somewhat bit about manufacturing processes and making these somewhat bit extra sustainable. Are you able to develop on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been growing for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it implies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing know-how for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-art electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive methodology. So we truly add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away in a while after which attempt to determine what to do with that form of materials. In order that’s a chance for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but in addition vitality consumption. We now have carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less vitality throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there’s truly already a chance there. However moreover this vitality subject, the bio-based and renewable substrate supplies are already suitable with the printing know-how. It’s truly fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. However for printing, it’s fairly straightforward as a result of you understand that you could print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a form of simpler job.
Cass: So are you able to speak somewhat bit about a number of the type of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Sure. So if you concentrate on the Sustronics program– so there are literally a whole lot of improvement for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the purpose is to develop the form of gadgets that folks can truly even use at residence to measure one thing from their saliva, or they will monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-type wearable system on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re growing are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you possibly can monitor how you’re doing when you’re exercising and you’ll even measure your coronary heart fee, after which the app would– the app you’d have in your cell phone would then let you know based mostly on the measurement knowledge that, okay, you probably did properly right this moment or one thing else.
And one utility space that VTT has been growing rather a lot gadgets already within the earlier analysis packages are these options for clever packaging. So if we speak concerning the packaging trade, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to ensure that the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise will not be spoiling. So VTT has been growing electronics for that, like sensors hooked up to packages, digital sensors that may transmit data to cell phone. But when you concentrate on the packaging trade, the packages are recyclable. So then truly we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those form of sensible tags, how we might name them, could be a very necessary side to think about. And there, these new form of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a very necessary position.
Cass: And the way lengthy do you assume it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that buyers can type of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Properly, truly, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. In fact, not in actually enormous volumes. However there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s bought available in the market. However after all, we are able to’t print a cell phone with these form of applied sciences, at the very least not but. So it relies upon. Maybe a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it’d take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. However let’s say through the subsequent decade, there would definitely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. The place are these producers situated? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we are able to see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain by way of these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Properly, after all, the printed electronics contract producers, they don’t seem to be actually massive firms but. They’re nonetheless on the early section, and they’re situated all world wide. Most likely fairly a lot of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, we’ve been investigating printed electronics rather a lot. However yeah, there isn’t a subject why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. However as we expect, “What’s the technique of the EU?”, we truly need to– the EU needs to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to type of preserve the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I believe within the EU, there could be most likely fairly sturdy help sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or at the very least establishing new manufacturing items to Europe.
Cass: So when you might wave a magic wand and clear up one downside proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Properly, most likely I’d make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets not too long ago, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there isn’t a restore possibility. So I’ve been compelled to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not needed to take action. So most likely I’d change the enterprise a bit that the restore would all the time be an possibility until you’ve got one thing that’s like 50 years previous. Maybe that may be a problem. However even for a 5-year-old system, it will be good to have a restore possibility. So I suppose I’d develop the form of design for the electronics that they actually could be repaired or reused.
Cass: Are you able to speak somewhat bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you mentioned it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose trade. So are you able to speak somewhat bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper type of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Maybe the background is in order that Finland has a protracted historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics initiatives that had been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the position of the paper firms in Finland was actually sturdy. So truly, at the very least in Finland, how we began to research printed electronics, the initiative was involving various these forest trade firms. And that’s how we additionally at VTT bought concerned with utilizing cellulose-based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you concentrate on the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite options like biopolymers. So I suppose within the early stage, the paper trade was truly in search of new enterprise alternatives. And so they thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being accomplished on a regular basis. In order that’s how I believe the factor began, at the very least in Finland.
Cass: So it is a fascinating matter, which we might speak about all day, however I’m afraid we’ve to go away it there. At this time we had been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so pretty to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thanks. It was pretty being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be a part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.
